In this week’s episode of The Autism Mums Podcast we welcome Carl Draper, student mental health nurse, award-winning photographer and father to Bodhi, an autistic child with a powerful story.

Carl opens up about the early signs of autism in his son, facing expulsion from nursery on day one and the intense stress of parenting a non-verbal child with little sleep or support.

He shares how a pivotal moment with his camera led to a personal breakthrough.

Biography

Carl Draper was born in a North Nottinghamshire mining village and moved to Bournemouth at 19, where he served as a beach lifeguard and discovered his love for surfing. Accepted into the Royal Marines, his plans changed after a serious leg injury during a heroic rescue, an event that earned him a Local Hero Award and a feature on BBC’s 999 Rescue. He later became RNLI head trainer for lifeguards across Dorset, then served over a decade with Dorset Ambulance Service. Shifting to education, he trained firefighters and police nationwide before retraining as a mental health nurse. Carl is currently studying at Bournemouth University. In 2015, he founded Waveslider, winning the Bournemouth Tourism Award in 2017, and began documenting life with his son Bodhi in 2020.

Quote

I’ve always had this thing with special educational needs parents or SEND parents — we’re not in the same boat, but we are in the same storm. – Carl Draper

Key Takeaways

Trust Your Instincts – Parents often notice signs before professionals do. If something feels off, it’s okay to seek answers and push for support.

Environment Shapes Experience – The right setting and supportive people can help a child thrive.

Diagnosis is a Beginning, Not an End – Receiving a diagnosis can bring clarity, but also grief and uncertainty. It marks the start of a new chapter, not the end of a story.

Regulation Starts With Us – Emotional regulation in ourselves is often needed when supporting a child with complex needs. We can’t pour from an empty cup.

Creativity is Healing – Photography can offer a way to pause, reflect and process life. Creative outlets are powerful tools for emotional resilience and self-regulation

Assistance Dogs can offer deep connection, comfort, and safety to children with additional needs.

Advocacy Requires Persistence – Navigating the SEND system often involves battles, persistence and support.

Mentioned in This Episode

CAMHS / ID CAMHS – Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services, including services for children with intellectual disabilities

Von Kebles – The training center supporting Frank, Bodhi’s assistance dog

Connect with Carl Draper

Follow Carl’s journey with his son Bodhi on the Waverslider Photography Facebook Page

Follow Carl on Instagram

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to

the Autism Mums podcast. I’m Victoria. And I’m Natalie. We are two sisters

raising autistic children who know the joy, the challenges, and the everyday

moments. This is a supportive space for honest conversations, practical tips,

shared strength and expert advice. Whether you are celebrating a win, surviving

a meltdown, or just trying to make it through the day, we are right here with

you. Join us as we share the ups, the downs, and everything in between parenting autistic children.

Victoria Bennion:

Today, we’re pleased to welcome to the podcast student Mental Health nurse Carl

Draper. Carl founded Wave Slider Photography in 2015, which won the Bournemouth

Tourism Award in 2017. Since 2020, Carl has been documenting his life with his

autistic son Bodhi through his stunning photography.

 Welcome to the podcast, Carl. It’s great to have you with us today.

Natalie Tealdi: Can you [00:01:00] share a bit about your

background and how it has shaped your parenting journey with Bodhi?

Carl Draper: Bodhi was born in 2017. By the time he was five, six months, we were convinced that Bodhi was autistic. He never made eye contact. He was just in his own little

world and he was silent. So there were, there were strong signs. I think the

health visitors and other people at the time, they were saying, oh, he is just

sure of himself and he’s confident, but he, you know, there was zero eye

contact. It was almost like he’d intentionally wouldn’t make eye

contact, which is quite strange for a baby of that age. It was that. It was

that strong and obvious. By the time he was two, he was completely silent. So

we were, more sure then that, that this was autism, that we were dealing with,

and this was gonna be a different kind of journey from a parenting

perspective..

Victoria Bennion: Did Bodhi go to nursery?

Carl Draper: His very first nursery he went to [00:02:00] was a

Montessori nursery, and he was expelled on day one, which is quite an

achievement for a 2-year-old you know, the social norms were expected that

you’d come in and sit at the table and kind of join in where he was just, he

was just constantly off.

Doing his own little thing in his own little bubble. Completely silent, no eye contact. So you were, you were just following him, containing him and, and trying to engage. So we picked him up at lunchtime and he was, he was in a complete state. The lady, who we picked him up from, she looked like she’d been dragged through her hedge backwards.

She was completely disheveled, completely stressed, and we never know until the day what happened there that day. But the one thing we have learned throughout our journey with Bodhi and the autism parenting, is that nothing impacts a child more than the behavior of those around him. And we are convinced that something happened there that [00:03:00]

day. We don’t know what it was, but , it took days and days to settle him down. He was, completely devastated. So then we found another nursery for him. They were much better. It was a bigger class and it was more along the lines of, of play, nursery play rather than sit down at a table and learn to read and write.

So he, settled in there. More so because of the people that were looking after him. They were brilliant. And they helped the journey start,, with the referrals to the hospital. Poole, hospital for the autism diagnosis,

Victoria Bennion: Can you talk us through the autism diagnosis process that you went through with Bodhi?

Carl Draper: There was a doctor, speech and language therapist and an occupational therapist, and they had an outdoor playground, an indoor playroom, and a separate room with. Four chairs. And what they did is two of them would spend half an hour with

Bodhi. One of them would spend half an hour with us and they rotated around. There was two of everything toys wise. And we did say to them on the way through the door, be careful [00:04:00] with the digital key code because Bodhi had a thing for cracking codes. At the

time, you know, they, they kind of didn’t believe us and said, you know, we’re fine. We’re used to this. Within five minutes he was out the building

Victoria Bennion: Oh my goodness.

Carl Draper: Yeah, they were off down the corridor chasing him.

Natalie Tealdi: Wow.

Carl Draper: He’s got this strange ability where he doesn’t remember, he doesn’t fiddle around trying to figure it out. He just punches it in. It’s like he almost knows it. And, uh, he, he was off, he was gone. We spent an hour and a half, two hours there, and they had a bit of a con flab debrief after, and he was diagnosed there.

And then, and I think that was the beginning of the stress from that parenting side because we were asking the questions that, I suppose everybody asking that scenario, when is he gonna speak? When are we gonna hear his voice? What comes next? And so we kind left. Left. Really? Then how do you learn to hear a child who doesn’t speak?

There’s no YouTube tutorial. There’s no book. So [00:05:00] then we’d, you know, do the research and we didn’t find any answers. So we started doing everything with pictures and

videos. We’d take videos of everything from putting your shoes on to going in the bath to go into the toilet. And that’s, where it began.

Victoria Bennion:

What were some of your greatest challenges around this time?

Carl Draper: Car journeys were probably the worst at that time. He would try and get out the car while we were moving because again, he’s not talking, he’s not making eye

contact, he’s not engaging, he is just doing his own little thing and we’re trying to carry him around the world, you know, to school and to the shops and to the beach.

And, and he would try and get out the car. So we’d put one padlock on them, two, then three, then four. And within minutes of going up the road, he’d be stood the footwell, you know, clapping, holding up. The padlock figured out the codes and, and got out of there.

The stress at that point, when he got to the age three was by [00:06:00] far the worst for me because we live in a world of social norms, don’t we? You know, where, the parenting style that we had was wrong. We didn’t have the information, the education on what kind of parent you need to be for a child like this with no answers.

So there’s no preparation. I think my stress was, Charlie was still working A&E at the time as a nurse, so 12 hour shifts, and I would go two, three days without sleep regularly. Where you get to the point where if he goes to sleep at three o’clock, you go to sleep at three o’clock, but that might only last 45 minutes.

And then we would do 50,000 steps a night in house. He would go around the kitchen, emptying all the cupboards, stacking the plates up, making pretty patterns. He’d go upstairs, strip all the bed, strip all the cupboards, then back downstairs, and you’d go round and round and round. So you were just again following and containing, but I made the mistake of cleaning up behind him. He would unpack it, you would pack [00:07:00] away. He would unpack it and then he’d sit in the dryer. He loves sitting in the dryer and he’d have a bit of a break, if you like. That was his safe space, and he’d watch kung fu Panda over and over and over. So regularly we went without sleep, and I think I, I fell into this trap where. I got so stressed because when can I teach him who Santa is? When can I teach him what the magic of Christmas is? When can I build this relationship? And I think what happens is you kind of realize that they’re all your own stresses. Your own wants, your own needs. Truth is he was happy.

Victoria Bennion:

Yeah. Can you talk to us about the major turning point for you?

Carl Draper: It was 2020 New Year’s Day. Charlie was on nights at A&E and I was on my second, second or third night with no sleep. I can’t remember, but I think I was at my worst point. Then I kind of sat on the kitchen floor at like two, three in the morning I’d had [00:08:00] enough. And I picked my camera up, and took a photo of him in the dryer. While he had his, iPad and I won an award for that picture and it was, a major turning point for me. I’d found a way to regulate myself emotionally and that’s what I started to document our journey together through Waveslider and started to accept that I needed to change, let go of my stresses and wants. He’s happy, so don’t worry about it. If he never speaks, don’t worry about it.

We’re happy. Things are going well and the journey through nursery was going well and we were looking forward to school. I started to learn to let go of all of that, that my own stress and wants and needs. And then things became a lot happier, you know, but you, you had to be out all day, needed a very structured day.

So if Charl was on work at night, I had to take him out all day. Otherwise, he wouldn’t let us sleep.

Victoria Bennion: Oh my goodness.

Carl Draper: So we, we got into this routine where [00:09:00] we were going to the beach all day and I was teaching him to surf, to swim, to paddleboard, and he loved being outdoors.

He had cocoa at the time, his German Shepherd, she was black and they were best friends. So we’d spend a lot of time in the forest, in the ponds, and through the wintertime, I’d put a wetsuit on him to keep him warm. You realize you can’t keep him dry. So we keep him warm. So we’d both go to the forest in the wintertime with our wetsuits on, and then he’d be, know, be in the ponds, in the wintertime with cocoa and his rubber ducks and playing, and I’d start taking pictures and that became the, daily, thing, this routine.

And of course, we went through lockdown as well. So, you know, I would, having the majority of the time, because Charlie was working, she worked both lockdowns in a e on the Covid pods. So that was quite a strange time.

Victoria Bennion:

Yeah, it must have been.

Carl Draper: But we were very lucky because we live right on the edge of the forest, so we

disappeared to the forest all day, every day as normal. And then he got to the age, four, and then he [00:10:00] moved to the next school up, which was a school for complex learning needs. Still completely silent. But we were into our routine now. I’d let go of those stresses and wants and needs. So I was documenting the journey as we went day to day.

And I think really I started out on Waveslider and because at that point I got to that night on the kitchen floor, I thought you’ve got the other mums and dads out there that feel alone and helpless and you know, I’ve always had this thing with special educational needs parents or send parents. We’re not in the same boat, but we are in the same storm. We’re all going through a journey, but it depends on how we are individually, on what our breaking point is, our strengths are and and that kind of thing. So I’m a surfer, I’m an outdoors person, so off we went to the beach every day and that’s fine until you get injured or you get poorly. I broke my ankle three years ago. I had stick to that routine. They couldn’t put a cast on it. They

put a boot on it and he wouldn’t leave it alone. So I [00:11:00] had to take it off because the pain he was causing trying to get it off. So I put loads of socks on one foot and off we went to the beach. It’s much easier with an injury ’cause it just hurts. It’s when you you’re poorly that, it’s at its worst because you want to lay down and curl up.

We’d never had a babysitter. We couldn’t leave him with anybody. It had to be myself or Charlie at all times with him. We were the only ones that could communicate with him or understand him. It’d be unsafe. It’d be a disaster.

Victoria Bennion: Of course. How did he get on at school?

Carl Draper: We had lots of problems there. Eventually got expelled for climbing a four foot fence. And then what ensued after was, he was at home for 15 months and we had a big fight with the school and the local authority through solicitors. We were very lucky we got a GoFundMe through Wave Slider. We had a lot of support. That was amazing, the fact that there’s people out there that you’ve never met who support you and want to help you, so. [00:12:00] We got through that and Bodhi started to speak just after his sixth birthday

Natalie Tealdi: What was that like?

Carl Draper: We’d let go of all these, you know, when’s he gonna speak? We were just like, oh, right. He said something. It started off with a couple of words, but within a very short

space of time, he’s got this eloquent, beautiful speech and we are having conversations and he is, you know, telling you what he wants and where he wants to go. And we were like, wow, we’re gonna have our first Christmas this year.

Six years old, we can tell him because we, we started off putting a Christmas tree up when he was around the age of three, but it, he just destroy it. We put presents out in front of him at Christmas. He had no interest. He had no idea what a present was or who Santa is or what Christmas is, or a birthday. He just had no interest. But when he started speaking, when we were coming up towards that first Christmas. His sixth year, you [00:13:00] could see the excitement building in him. Like Santa’s coming to see me and we had most epic Christmas ever.

Victoria Bennion:

Fantastic. And once the court case was over, how’s the new school been for Bodhi?

Carl Draper: We got him into a private school and that’s when life. Really changed for us. And he started to thrive , he evolved extremely quickly. Extremely quickly. I think the autism with Bodhi is a gift. There’s no doubt about that. It’s, the world around the social norms and expectations that cause and bring the problems.

We also started to believe that A DHD was flying under the radar there because there were behaviors. That were very indicative of A DHD. He couldn’t stop and think before he acted. He was always on the lead when we went out. And this is where Coco, the dog helped. He’s just a mini hurricane.

But when he started to speak and he started to evolve a little bit more cognitively [00:14:00] and develop emotionally, that’s when the challenging behavior came. And I would say that falls into two parts. One, again, the impact of people’s behavior around him.

I using the wrong parenting behaviors. I grew up in a pit village in the seventies, eighties. You know, I got brought up in a world where if I ran home from school because the bullies were chasing me, my mum wouldn’t let me in the house.

I had to relearn to be a parent. I had to relearn my thought processes, the way that I approach tantrums and, and understanding and validating. It’s like learning to nail jelly to a wall, but you’re expected to be an expert at it. And it’s very difficult, so I relearned to do that. But first I had to learn to, regulate my own emotions. Some days you’re better at it than others, depending on how your own needs are met, how tired you are, how well fed you are, how you know, little stress you have in life, [00:15:00] like with university work, financial.

The challenge is. With the A DHD side of things where he couldn’t regulate his emotions. So from June last year up until December, we were on the waiting list. ’cause he is under ID CAMHS. There’s two teams of CAMHS. You’ve got CAMHS and you’ve got ID CAMHS. ID CAMHS is for children whose IQ is less than 70.

I learned that recently when I did my placement with CAMHS.

Victoria Bennion: I didn’t know that.

Carl Draper: No, and I didn’t, and he’d been under ID CAMHS for, you know, a couple of years. So we had to wait six months for this medication meeting between June and December

every evening we had challenging behavior, it could take Charlie an hour or

three hours to settle into sleep. Then we started medications in December.

Didn’t work to begin with because it completely wiped out his appetite.

Bodhi’s system’s quite low anyway because he doesn’t eat very

well, as most autistic children doesn’t. Then after [00:16:00]

Christmas we swapped, the medication and I been a lot better since then.

Victoria Bennion:

That’s really good to hear.

Carl Draper: We’ve been a big learning journey, more so in the last 12 months, but we’ve made huge progress and he’s much better for it. Probably the best thing he’s got in his life is his dog. Always has been. He’s never had child friends.

Even at the age two or three if we’re in the park, if children were playing together, he’d kind of latch on at the back and follow them and mirror them. They would turn around and go, hi, my name’s Elsie.

What’s your name? No response ’cause he’s completely silent and

they don’t speak sign language And Bodhi wouldn’t respond. So they would then

distance himself from Bodhi because he is clearly different. Actually children

are brilliant at nonverbal communication and speech is only 6% of how we

communicate as humans, when you learn to hear a child who doesn’t speak, become

an expert, if you like.

At nonverbal communication, it’s both a gift and a curse at the same time.

Victoria Bennion:

Yeah, I [00:17:00] can imagine.

Carl Draper:

Everybody comes with subtitles for me

Victoria Bennion: I imagine it would be quite useful a mental health nurse being able to read

people so well.

Carl Draper: When I’m with parents and children, like the placement on CAMHS, I felt completely at home. You know, because most parents or families I met would say to me, no, you have no idea what this feels like. And they were wrong.

But once they realize that you can build a great therapeutic relationship and start to actually help, I could sit on the floor and talk, sign language to a child or relate to a parent.

Victoria Bennion: Was sign language quite key in how you, communicated with Bodhi to start with.

Carl Draper: not really. We learned it, we learned it brilliantly. , We got the apps and I’d be

sat on the bus going to work or uni and we learned it over years and we became,

pretty good at it. Bodhi, he only learned the words he wanted to learn. , went

to the shop. You get to the checkout, he would always say thank you in sign

language to the person at the [00:18:00] checkout.

Victoria Bennion: How did you develop skills like reading body language?

Carl Draper: Most of us can do the basics if someone’s angry or happy or sad or frightened. But when you do it all day, every day, it’s like anything else.. You learn, and then you

put it into practice it’d be the same if you put a person into a, a country

that speaks a different language.

If you left them there for years, eventually they’re gonna pick

up the basics and learn that speech. We just learned, , we didn’t have anything

else and nobody was gonna teach us.

Natalie Tealdi: Was there anything specific you did to learn to, , regulate your own emotions?

Carl Draper: People say, you’ve gotta have self care, and you kind of live in your own little

bubble because it doesn’t fit, does it? When you’re on your own and you can’t

have a babysitter you have to learn to get on with it.

And we’re such a good team. I was in the ambulance service for years. Charlie was a E for years.

We both do a lot of research and reading, so there’s a lot of

academic and evidence based stuff out there you can pick up on with,

challenging behavior, [00:19:00] emotional regulation. And even if you go through CAMHS, they do parenting courses, so.

I don’t see things as a failure, but if I don’t get something

right today, I’ll make it a point to go and learn it and become better at it.

And that’s what we’ve been doing. So if I’ve had a bad day, I’m just like, i’ll

do better tomorrow. And I’ll go and learn how to be a better parent or how to

be better with nonverbal communication.

Victoria Bennion: Is photography a good outlet for you?

Carl Draper: I love the photography because I’m creative. And I wanted to document the journey with Bodhi through Waveslider. One of the placements I did last year, they did

courses. So I was there for eight weeks and I designed a photography course, a

one hour course to run to people who were suffering with their mental health.

There’s loads of evidence out there. You know that photography

is great for your creativity. It breaks the here and now, so it can stop

intrusive thoughts. Regulate your emotions here and now you can do it wherever

you are. The [00:20:00] kitchen, the lounge, inside, outside, daytime, nighttime, rain.

You just pick up a camera and start being creative. So , I did

this course and by the end of the placement, the course was full.

Natalie Tealdi: Wow.

Carl Draper: , It was evidence-based. So that helped fuel me. I love to do all sorts of photography, but you know, most of the time I’ll just point a camera towards Bodhi and

introduce some bubbles or the dog. Or we’ll put a paddling pool in the kitchen

at night. If it’s 2:00 AM in the morning, it doesn’t matter what time of day or

night it is. And within a couple of minutes that, you know, feeling of

stress, it’s gone. I’m now concentrating. And like I said, it’s evidence based.

It’s great for mental health and wellbeing.

Victoria Bennion: And your photos are quite amazing

Natalie Tealdi: Yes.

Carl Draper: But it’s just things that I do in my own. In my own time.

Victoria Bennion: Bodhi’s, assistant dog, Frank. Features on the page as well.

Carl Draper: So Frank is 10 months old. He came to us with the name Frank, ’cause he came from litter F So every [00:21:00] dog in that litter had a

name F. When we met Frank, he was huge. He was. Eight weeks old, but his feet

were size six. He a Czech working line, so he is the biggest of German

Shepherds the breed. So literally I looked at him, I said, that is Frank the tank.

And that’s where Frank, the tank was born. So Bodhi had cocoa from when he was

born up until the age six. She was a black German shepherd and she was

everything to Bodhi. How do you even start to fill a gap like that?

We spoke to a guy called Craig, who, runs Von Kebles. And they

are a family of dog breeders from generations and generations of dog breeding.

We made the mistake of saying we wanted another black one to

try and replace Coco. So he gave us a black German shepherd called Cleo, and

she was brilliant. She worshiped the ground Bodhi, walked on. She was amazing.

But by the time she got to eight months, her drives increased

so much that she [00:22:00] clearly needed to be in a working environment. So she went off into the police. She’s now thriving and happy. And that’s where we got Frank.

He came along and his drives are very, very low, so he’s

perfect. And they’ve been the best of friends since he got here. He goes

everywhere. Bodhi goes to the shops, goes to the beach, goes to the airport,

they sleep together . They’re just the perfect friendship and there is, there

is no greater gift and friendship and a loyalty from a German Shepherd.

Just it’s unmatched.

Victoria Bennion: How do you go about getting an assistance dog?

Carl Draper: There are charities out there that you can sign up to that will get you, a dog and

provide the training. We went through Von Kebles they provide, police prison

service and they do all sorts of domestic type dog training. We made really

good friends with them.

They’re becoming a, a registered center for Assistance dogs. So they are training. Frank He has training every week. And [00:23:00] obviously it’s a little bit different

because you’re trying to train a dog with a child like Bodhi. Who’s evolving

and changing all the time. So the training has to change and evolve.

There’s a, there’s a standard structure for the training, the

same as protection training. But they work alongside us. So we’re doing it in

the stages that we can do it, when we can do it with Frank. Like at the moment,

Frank’s learning to read body language and he is mirroring Bodhi movements.

He’s had great, good quality exposure from an early age around

all planes, explosions, fireworks. So he is just calm at all times and he’s

happy. So that, that training’s going really well with Frank, and that will be

ongoing because Bodhi is changing as well. So if a problem arises, we go to Von

Kebles, we talk about it, they change the structure of the training to deal

with how Bodhi is changing, et cetera, from challenging behavior.

One of Best things about a dog like Frank is, is a visual [00:24:00] deterrent. And that works really well. , I

went to a superstore. With Bohi and he had a huge meltdown at the checkout over

a bottle of water and went on for about half an hour.. Most people were fine.

They’d sort of walk on by Then one lady started filming me and she was stood

next to her friend saying, you know, when I was brought up, I was brought up

with discipline and a slap.

None of this woke, parenting of today, which really doesn’t

help when you sat on the floor with all those people watching. And then the

security guard came over and said to the checkout lady, would you like me to

remove this child from the store? I. So then ensued a conversation with me and

the guy where I’m like, you really need to think about what you’ve just said

there, fella.

You’re not picking up a 7-year-old child and removing him. You

need to give us space a little bit of time, little bit of understanding, and ,

this will be fine. And we had exactly the same scenario in exactly the same

store two months ago. Over a bottle of water at the checkout. Only this time,

Frank was sat next to [00:25:00] Bodhi with his

assistance vest on, and there was a gap of about 50 foot around us because

Frank’s just staring at everybody.

And the nonverbal communication from Frank is great. It’s like,

don’t even think about it, just stay wide, keep walking, and it’s perfect. He’s

not aggressive, he just stares. And the same security guard was on shift. He

came over again. I kind of stood up and said Hello, and he just said to me, he

said, oh, it’s you again.

I said, I’m so sorry for this. I’m so sorry I again, if you

just give us a bit of time. And he said, well, we’re busy. We got, I said,

look, you’ve got a problem fella. Talk to Frank. He took one look at Frank.

Frank was staring up. He just turned around and walked away. So that side of

things is brilliant ’cause it’s quite unusual seeing a German Shepherd such a

big one as an assistance dog.

I think most people with the schemers in their brain, they

associate words with a picture, you know? Perhaps they think, assistance dog as

in a, a guide dog, like a golden retriever [00:26:00]

or Labrador type dog.

Victoria Bennion:

Looking ahead, what are your hopes for the future?

Carl Draper: There’s

nothing else we want or need for any of us, or for Bodhi, other than for him to

be healthy, happy, and independent hopefully one day the things that we’ve done

will help to teach him, how to be with those around him that he loves, to fight

their corner, to advocate for them,

Victoria Bennion:

thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey. We really appreciate

it

Carl Draper: thank you for having me.

Victoria Bennion: Is the best place for people to connect with you via your Facebook page?

Carl Draper: Yeah.

The Facebook page is the main place where I document our journey. I do have an

Instagram page, but I, I put my heart and soul really into the Facebook page.

It has a quite a large audience following that tend to be a lot of Parents of

special educational needs,

Victoria Bennion:

Fantastic. Thank you. We’ll put links to both of those in the show notes.

Thanks for joining us today on the Autism Mums Podcast. [00:27:00] We hope you have found a little support, a little solidarity, and a reminder that you are not in this alone. If you

enjoyed the episode, we’d love it if you’d follow the show and share it with

another parent or carer who might need to hear it. And if you’ve got a story or

a moment you’d like to share, we’d love to hear from you at

www.theautismmums.com.

Until next time, take care.